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  • Biden effect: Americans now live paycheck to paycheck

    Someone predicted this before Biden became President……


    https://kion546.com/news/2022/03/09/...k-to-paycheck/

    funny how that works. I said it would all just trickle down to low/middle class paying the worst of it….sure enough Biden has destroyed America in one years time….

    Bidens new slogan? Suck it up and pay or you aren’t a patriot!


  • #2
    64% seems kind of low. It was 78% in 2019. Stimulus money probably helped.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Biden Effect? A majority of Americans have been living paycheck-to-paycheck for decades now. It's nothing new.

      The landscape of the United States, especially with respect to economics, changed a long time ago.

      I will be 35 years old in April. I'm sure there are many of you who are a bit older and could chime in more on this, but I'll do some reflection on that statement.

      Back when I was a kid and my parents bought our house [and probably some of you guys are in their age range], they had to save up for years to get enough for a down payment. The requirements were much stricter as were the interest rates. Back in the day (as far as I remember) you actually had to pledge cash from your savings to even qualify for a credit card. That meant the bank would take money from your savings to pay off the debt monthly at a fixed-rate.

      We will simply just call the old days a low-credit, low-risk environment. Those days are long gone. The time and effort it took to create (and purchase) something of great importance was lengthy. Not anymore. The game has changed. And it's changed for a lot of reasons and most aren't good.

      Ever since I've been alive the whole system has been commodified and mechanized. Everything. You used to have to go to a person or location physically and be assessed for any credit-based decision. A lot of the time you were told "No."

      When the digital age hit and computers took over, algorithms and programs phased out a lot of the financial sector and ultimately became the primary point of contact for assessing one's credit value and risk. A ****ing computer.

      A ways down the line, eighteen year old kids coming out of high school would be sent credit offers in the mail and could qualify up to thousands of dollars in credit card lines, regardless of being a soon-to-be college student and not having a job or any working history. I know this all to well. I was one of those kids (though I had worked since I was 14) who was dumb enough to go for it. "Free money!"

      I'd wager to say that 8 out of 10 people in this country are absolute debt-serfs. If two out of ten people outright owned everything they had and weren't in some sort of debt, I'd be surprised. Most all families wouldn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of if someone in their house (dual income) lost their job. One small medical emergency puts most people behind for years.

      As my grandpa used to say, "It's all over but the crying."

      Not sure when it's going to happen, but a full collapse of this nation's, perhaps even global economic system, seems inevitable.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am 45. I'll add a little to this.

        I see alot of memes....and also people...my own adult children...comlain about not being able to buy a house, afford a car etc.....

        In the case of the memes...one that comes up all the time is back in 1970, a house cost X, milk cost X, a car cost X. and so on.

        The meme usually isn't factually wrong, but they leave out some important info....the house one is a great example...the average home in 1970 was like 1500 sq ft. The average home now is something like 3000 sq feet. My parents, in the early 70's, bought their first home...it was like 800 sq ft. I've seen it..they've driven me past it...they went on to buy other homes...each bigger than the one before it...but all were TINY compared to what most would consider a starter home these days. My fathers first car was a 1950 Dodge DeSoto that didn't run or have working brakes that my grandfather bought at a garage sale for 15 bucks back in like 1968 or so. They towed it home...my grandpa sat in a lawn chair drinking beer, and told my dad step by step how to repair all the crap that needed fixed on that car. It was up and running in 3 days. My dad from that point on knew how to work on cars, on top of having a running car. That was paid for.

        I've shown my kids 800 squ ft homes that they COULD move into, and how you can buy a bag of rice and 5 dollar rotisserie chicken and eat for days and so on....When I was a kid, we didn't have cable TV...hell we didn't have a color TV until I was a teenager. We didn't have air conditioning.

        It's not that I wouldn't want nice things for my kids...or other people....but it gets really really old hearing how people are just a paycheck away from disaster....I beleive they are...because they are living at the edge of their means....

        I think alot of people...especially young people....don't realize how their paycheck could be under alot lets stress if they reduced their means....I don't even think most people are against the idea of decreasing their spending...it's that they think that means instead of no wifi...they need to find cheaper wifi...or instad of not eating out...they need to eat out and spend less doing so....there is a minimum set of things and services that they all just kind think are required.

        Anyhow....if you cut everyones money in half...poeple would still get by just fine...poeple all over the world who have even less than that..mange to do so...

        Comment


        • #5
          It’s been 40 years coming… the problem simply compound now versus happen by themselves..

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
            I am 45. I'll add a little to this.

            I see alot of memes....and also people...my own adult children...comlain about not being able to buy a house, afford a car etc.....

            In the case of the memes...one that comes up all the time is back in 1970, a house cost X, milk cost X, a car cost X. and so on.

            The meme usually isn't factually wrong, but they leave out some important info....the house one is a great example...the average home in 1970 was like 1500 sq ft. The average home now is something like 3000 sq feet. My parents, in the early 70's, bought their first home...it was like 800 sq ft. I've seen it..they've driven me past it...they went on to buy other homes...each bigger than the one before it...but all were TINY compared to what most would consider a starter home these days. My fathers first car was a 1950 Dodge DeSoto that didn't run or have working brakes that my grandfather bought at a garage sale for 15 bucks back in like 1968 or so. They towed it home...my grandpa sat in a lawn chair drinking beer, and told my dad step by step how to repair all the crap that needed fixed on that car. It was up and running in 3 days. My dad from that point on knew how to work on cars, on top of having a running car. That was paid for.

            I've shown my kids 800 squ ft homes that they COULD move into, and how you can buy a bag of rice and 5 dollar rotisserie chicken and eat for days and so on....When I was a kid, we didn't have cable TV...hell we didn't have a color TV until I was a teenager. We didn't have air conditioning.

            It's not that I wouldn't want nice things for my kids...or other people....but it gets really really old hearing how people are just a paycheck away from disaster....I beleive they are...because they are living at the edge of their means....

            I think alot of people...especially young people....don't realize how their paycheck could be under alot lets stress if they reduced their means....I don't even think most people are against the idea of decreasing their spending...it's that they think that means instead of no wifi...they need to find cheaper wifi...or instad of not eating out...they need to eat out and spend less doing so....there is a minimum set of things and services that they all just kind think are required.

            Anyhow....if you cut everyones money in half...poeple would still get by just fine...poeple all over the world who have even less than that..mange to do so...
            Most everyone lives beyond their means. That's how society is now. It's not something exclusive to younger generations. People can certainly cut down on waste (and should)—but even by doing so—still doesn't solve the fact that one incident could set them back for quite some time.

            It's not cheap to live these days. People aren't getting by fine. The median household wage in the USA is barely over $16 an hour. How long do you think it would take someone who makes $16 an hour (and lives frugally) to pay off a $5,000 emergency room visit to the hospital? That's equivalent to 15-percent of their yearly wage.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Requiem View Post

              Most everyone lives beyond their means. That's how society is now. It's not something exclusive to younger generations. People can certainly cut down on waste (and should)—but even by doing so—still doesn't solve the fact that one incident could set them back for quite some time.

              It's not cheap to live these days. People aren't getting by fine. The median household wage in the USA is barely over $16 an hour. How long do you think it would take someone who makes $16 an hour (and lives frugally) to pay off a $5,000 emergency room visit to the hospital? That's equivalent to 15-percent of their yearly wage.
              Yes, having to visit the E-room for 5k when you are making 16 per hour is a big hurt.

              I know this isn't a thread about healthcare costs and coverage and I don't want to turn it into one....those same folks would have a real hard time if the motor blew up on their car, or if their refrigerator quit working. Being poor sucks.

              I have thoughts and ideas about the above, but to keep this on topic....even at 16 per hour...if you have a realistic understanding of what your means are and live within them, you can live, and even have a savings account. You will have a very very modest home, and car, and food...but it can be done. I know it can be done because when you travel abroad, to places where people make way less than 16 per hour, and you see they have food, shelter, and even some medical options etc...then it's not really a matter of if it can work here or not...but really more about what is a minimal standard of living that is acceptable in comparison to your fellow citizens.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
                Yes, having to visit the E-room for 5k when you are making 16 per hour is a big hurt.
                It's a hit to families who make double that, live modestly, and have kids.

                I know this isn't a thread about healthcare costs and coverage and I don't want to turn it into one....those same folks would have a real hard time if the motor blew up on their car, or if their refrigerator quit working. Being poor sucks.
                They definitely would have a hard time. And by the article above, it appears that most people are poor.

                I have thoughts and ideas about the above, but to keep this on topic....even at 16 per hour...if you have a realistic understanding of what your means are and live within them, you can live, and even have a savings account.
                That's like $2,000 a month to live off of after taxes. Let's do a budget for a single woman, no kids, who is making $16 an hour. She's a recent graduated college and that's the offer she could find pay-wise in a rural area. (Less cost of living). This is probably a best-case scenario living in an area that's cheaper.

                1BR Apartment Rent: $700 (Far below U.S. average.)
                Utilities: $75 (Depends on where you live and your usage.)

                Internet: $50 (Because you can get internet for that price.)
                Phone: $25 (Because they have cheap plans monthly at that rate.)

                Car Payment: $150 (Five-year loan on a $9,000 used car. Nothing special.)
                Insurance: $50 (Full coverage required as vehicle is financed with average rate for being safe driver.)
                Gas: $200 (Average person uses 50 gallons a month on gas.)

                Food: $250 (A single person can definitely eat well and not spend this much, but this is probably a reasonable average.)

                That's $1,500 right there and still not including other bills (perhaps a student loan, dental bill, medical bill, etc.) and various miscellaneous expenses.

                That woman is scraping by. I'm really not adding any extras. That's as basic as it can really get for someone in the modern world who has to commute for work. Potentially could shave off some bucks here and there, but it's a fair estimate. That person wouldn't barely be able to save at all.

                You will have a very very modest home, and car, and food...but it can be done. I know it can be done because when you travel abroad, to places where people make way less than 16 per hour, and you see they have food, shelter, and even some medical options etc...then it's not really a matter of if it can work here or not...but really more about what is a minimal standard of living that is acceptable in comparison to your fellow citizens.
                Yeah. A person making $16 USD and living in a country where shit is dirt cheap and has no debt could get by just fine. I'm talking about people living in the USA. Billions of people across the planet get by with less. That still doesn't mean they aren't poor either.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So there are a couple ways to go about your example.

                  I pretty much agree with it...the 9000 dollar car is a problem...but like millions of Americans...she probably isn't very well educated about cars and went to your typical used car dealer and got a 2009 Hyundai Accent for 9000 bucks. ...I'm nitpicking....we'll roll with it.

                  She's in a rural area....recent college grad....took a kind of lower paying job in a rural area, but the costs of living in this area are lower too.

                  Ok...so in this example..she's making it. the 5000 dollar ER visit or blown car motor, etc...would be a huge problem for this lady.

                  Let's say she does have to make that ER visit. It will suck for her finances....but she can arrange payments. Wich will suck and leave less margin for additonal troubles...such as her car.

                  I agree....that this womans situation is perilous. She is getting by ok but a major event like ER visit, major car issue...is really going to set her back.

                  .......I'd like to repeat that I do have ideas about this that would involve government help/programs....we are a rich country and can afford to help....that's not what I want to argue or discuss...but I want ot put that out there because I am not oblivious to the idea that these things are problematic.....

                  ...for now, I'd argue...this womans life choices are not my problem to solve. She has choices....they aren't all perhaps appealing or choices that she really wants..but she has them.

                  1. She could try and get another job, or a second job to increase her income.
                  2. She could find a roomate, or better yet, a relationship with another person and live together, assuming the other person has some sort of job or income...this makes sharing a living situation and bills and then saving money, more viable.
                  3. If it's an option, she could consider moving back in with her parents.

                  As presented....this woman isn't about to die, or become homeless, or starve, etc. These are her circumstances based on her choices in life. She has made these choices and she gets to assume the risks that go with those.

                  I think IN PART, some why people in other countries do live a reasonable life on less money, is because the expectation is they don't have much of anything to fall back on if they live beyond or at the edge of their means.

                  I do understand and appreciate we are not talking about those countries and instead we are talking about the US...our great, rich nation with a very high standard of living, even among our poor...and I do think there are things we could do to promote and sustain a high standard of living among our "poor" to mitigate some of the 5k ER visits or car blowing up..and so on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by B-Large View Post
                    It’s been 40 years coming… the problem simply compound now versus happen by themselves..
                    I thought Biden has been a politician for more than 40 years. His efforts to destroy the country started sooner I think when a second rate, bottom of his class, law student decided to run for political office.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The scenario is a recent college graduate earning the nationwide average hourly rate. The girl is paying below-average rates on basic necessities.

                      She is just starting out her life in the real world. She would have a loan payment for school that's not included on the total. Everyone has miscellaneous expenses.

                      $9,000 for a used car is well-below what the average used car costs. (You can find a good car in this range if you are savvy. In this scenario it was a good car at a fair price.)

                      This person didn't do anything wrong in life. I didn't present a scenario where she made bad choices. She literally paying for basics. Yet one incident of misfortune would set her back for a while.

                      Nobody ever asked you to solve her problems, but your solution for her is to get a second job, get a roommate, or go live with her parents. People can do that. People are doing that.

                      I believe that a full-time worker in the USA should make a liveable wage and afford to be on their own.

                      And of course she could do payment plans for an emergency. I didn't say it had to be paid at once. It couldn't be. She couldn't do it.

                      Most hospitals would hope you get it paid off in a year. Add $350 a month to that (ER bill payment plan) and she's at $1,850 of her $2,000 in take home pay. Figure in $100 for student loans (low) and she has $50 of "spending cash."

                      Kind of weird to shame poor people and assert they made poor choices (this person didn't) only to go and say poor people here in the US have a high standard of living when they don't. They are living in poverty.




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Requiem View Post
                        The scenario is a recent college graduate earning the nationwide average hourly rate. The girl is paying below-average rates on basic necessities.

                        She is just starting out her life in the real world. She would have a loan payment for school that's not included on the total. Everyone has miscellaneous expenses.

                        $9,000 for a used car is well-below what the average used car costs. (You can find a good car in this range if you are savvy. In this scenario it was a good car at a fair price.)

                        This person didn't do anything wrong in life. I didn't present a scenario where she made bad choices. She literally paying for basics. Yet one incident of misfortune would set her back for a while.

                        I never said this person made BAD choices. This person made LIFE choices. They are her choices. She made them.

                        Nobody ever asked you to solve her problems, but your solution for her is to get a second job, get a roommate, or go live with her parents. People can do that. People are doing that.

                        And no one should ask me to solve her problems. I suggest some things that might help...but again..this is the path SHE chose.

                        I believe that a full-time worker in the USA should make a liveable wage and afford to be on their own.

                        UGH! Have you considered starting a business, so YOU could pay someone a wage you deemed to be "livable"? I believe you have the right to open a business and pay whatever you want to pay someone. ...also... Again...if the person in your scenario WANTS to live on their own, but can't afford to because they have chosen a career that doesn't pay X....and they don't want a partner....and they don't want to live at home....that is on them! Not on me! What number do you suppose is "livable"? This is the same problem with the minimum wage.....you can make that wage ANY number you want..15 gets tossed out a lot...but why not 50? or 100? IT doesn't matter what number you make it....if you decided that the dollar general clerk is mandated 100 bucks an hour...the guy who is roofing houses right now for 30 bucks an hour...is going to want 200 per hour. The value of the clerk job didn't change, and the value of the roofer job didn't change. Roofing is harder, requires more skills and it's harder to find people to do it....so naturally, to find roofers, you have to pay them more than a dollar general clerk...otherwise why be roofer? Every single time the min wage is ever raised...no one gets less "poor" the hierarchy of jobs just adjusts and the clerk is still the lowest paid person and then we are back to...we need a livable wage.

                        And of course she could do payment plans for an emergency. I didn't say it had to be paid at once. It couldn't be. She couldn't do it.

                        Most hospitals would hope you get it paid off in a year. Add $350 a month to that (ER bill payment plan) and she's at $1,850 of her $2,000 in take home pay. Figure in $100 for student loans (low) and she has $50 of "spending cash."

                        So, again, this is where you and I could probably find some agreement....I do think there are things we could do to make this situation better with the power of the state/government program of some sort. Raising the minimum wage/livable wage is NOT the solution. I am not against some sort of government solution here...I am against solutions that are proven not to work.

                        Kind of weird to shame poor people and assert they made poor choices (this person didn't) only to go and say poor people here in the US have a high standard of living when they don't. They are living in poverty.

                        I NEVER said this person made a poor choice. I was purposeful in my statement that this person made choices that they wanted to make...and they own the risk etc that go with those. People can chose to do what they want.

                        Lastly...I have been abroad...I've met plenty of people who wish they could be as poor as a poor American.

                        Ultimately....I think that this is a very rich country that an afford to tackle this type of scenario in some way.
                        Last edited by Zerovoltz; 03-09-2022, 11:54 PM. Reason: turned the text in my replies red.

                        Comment


                        • #13


                          Bad choices are implied when you state they aren't appealing.



                          Nobody asked you to. You injected yourself into the conversation in this manner.

                          UGH! Have you considered starting a business, so YOU could pay someone a wage you deemed to be "livable"? I believe you have the right to open a business and pay whatever you want to pay someone
                          Considered? Yes. Would I pay someone who worked for me full-time (in any endeavor) a just wage so they aren't scraping by? Yes.

                          ...also... Again...if the person in your scenario WANTS to live on their own, but can't afford to because they have chosen a career that doesn't pay X....and they don't want a partner....and they don't want to live at home....that is on them! Not on me!
                          I'd imagine most single people would like to live on their own. Not be forced to live with roommates, forced to having a "partner", or to live with their parents. Maybe this person's parents are dead and that's not an option. You are being awfully presumptuous. I didn't state what career this person chose. I gave them the average hourly wage for a full-time worker in the United States. And once again, I never brought up you.

                          What number do you suppose is "livable"?
                          Would entirely depend on the area someone resides in. $50K for a single individual in the Midwest (smaller town) probably would be more than enough. $50K in a big city (elsewhere) probably wouldn't.

                          IT doesn't matter what number you make it....if you decided that the dollar general clerk is mandated 100 bucks an hour...the guy who is roofing houses right now for 30 bucks an hour...is going to want 200 per hour. The value of the clerk job didn't change, and the value of the roofer job didn't change. Roofing is harder, requires more skills and it's harder to find people to do it....so naturally, to find roofers, you have to pay them more than a dollar general clerk...otherwise why be roofer? Every single time the min wage is ever raised...no one gets less "poor" the hierarchy of jobs just adjusts and the clerk is still the lowest paid person and then we are back to...we need a livable wage.
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                          Ultimately....I think that this is a very rich country that an afford to tackle this type of scenario in some way.
                          Of course we can.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            February has highest inflation rises in over 40 years.


                            great job Biden!! This clown doesn’t even let reporters ask him questions.




                            who has suffered the most under Biden? The poor and middle class. Biden just tells them to suck It up. Harris and Buttegig tells them just go buy an electric car!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It was obvious Biden would damage the country dramatically during his tenure, but what has happened is unimaginable. He won't even make moves, such as reducing domestic energy red tape, that would help in our national security. No speeches from Biden telling us to mobilize our energy production and create an operation warp speed to ramp up production. I expect Putin will offer John Kerry a Russian metal of service at some point.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I don't mind supporting Ukraine, after all, our nation helped them get into this mess, but if Biden doesn't realize his party is going to get slaughtered at the mid term...he's dreaming. If he doesn't understand how much he's impacting the poor and middle class in this country, he's as dumb as people says he is. We need to ramp up production here, because this isn't a short term thing. He's beating the American public, and it's not going to end well for anybody.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by uplink View Post
                                  It was obvious Biden would damage the country dramatically during his tenure, but what has happened is unimaginable. He won't even make moves, such as reducing domestic energy red tape, that would help in our national security. No speeches from Biden telling us to mobilize our energy production and create an operation warp speed to ramp up production. I expect Putin will offer John Kerry a Russian metal of service at some point.
                                  You’ve been provided links thrice about Biden approving public land permits for oil and gas usage mush faster than Trump…

                                  are you stupid or something?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Lolz...

                                    Federal judge blocks Biden's ban on leases for drilling on public lands (nbcnews.com)

                                    Biden drilling ban forces Democratic-led New Mexico to reckon with oil dependence | Reuters

                                    Biden last month signed an executive order pausing new oil and gas drilling leases on federal lands in what is widely viewed as the first step to delivering on a permanent ban promised during his campaign for the White House. Such a policy could have a big climate payoff by eventually shutting down what now represents about a quarter of U.S. oil and gas production.

                                    But it would also have a big public price tag. The U.S. federal lands drilling program yielded some $1.8 billion directly to states in 2020, supporting schools and other programs in places like Wyoming and Utah, according to data from the U.S. Interior Department. It also supports coastal erosion remediation efforts in hurricane-battered Gulf Coast states such as Louisiana that are among the regions most threatened by sea-level rise.
                                    Pffft. Money for American Schools. Just pay Vlady instead. I heard he's going to need a bunch more tanks and choppers soon.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Sounds like they are re-opening the Bakken operations in Western North Dakota and Eastern Montana.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by B-Large View Post

                                        You’ve been provided links thrice about Biden approving public land permits for oil and gas usage mush faster than Trump…

                                        are you stupid or something?
                                        red tape, its more than just exploration permits.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Its a race between Biden inflation and Biden gas price for which goes up by the highest % each week. Jimmy Carter's legacy is the only winner here.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by uplink View Post

                                            red tape, its more than just exploration permits.
                                            The ability to block the process comes during the sale of the lease... Which is what Biden is sitting on. They're halting the sale of public land leases. The leases being approved now that the clowns are crediting Biden with were predominately leases sold prior to his taking office.

                                            If they tried to block leases the government already sold, they'd get slapped down in court faster than Obama could say 'necessarily skyrocket'

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              The oil companies are sitting on over 9000 leases, that they have full approval to develop already! They are not being blocked by any agency of the state or federal government. They just have decided not to drill those sites because they don't want to, at this time.

                                              Just today the largest producer of oil in the Permian basin said that they could not ramp up production easily because they have decided not to spend the money they are raking in, for new development. They decided that they need to pay their investors large dividends, and use the rest to buy back their stocks and increase their net revenues vs. liabilities. Also because they are using many of the wells that are on the downward side of production now, it would cost more than they want to try to increase that yield. And there is a labor shortage since they reduced their staff so much in the pandemic and it would cost a lot to bring them back into the fields.

                                              In short they are capitalists, and **** anyone complaining about high prices. Profits are all that matters.

                                              Get the picture?

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Yep, poverty didn’t start in America until Biden became POTUS! And yes, Biden caused inflation! Definitely how it works! LOUD NOISES!

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by Scottxray View Post
                                                  The oil companies are sitting on over 9000 leases, that they have full approval to develop already! They are not being blocked by any agency of the state or federal government. They just have decided not to drill those sites because they don't want to, at this time.

                                                  Just today the largest producer of oil in the Permian basin said that they could not ramp up production easily because they have decided not to spend the money they are raking in, for new development. They decided that they need to pay their investors large dividends, and use the rest to buy back their stocks and increase their net revenues vs. liabilities. Also because they are using many of the wells that are on the downward side of production now, it would cost more than they want to try to increase that yield. And there is a labor shortage since they reduced their staff so much in the pandemic and it would cost a lot to bring them back into the fields.

                                                  In short they are capitalists, and **** anyone complaining about high prices. Profits are all that matters.

                                                  Get the picture?
                                                  It’s easier to blame Biden though! Anyone with half a brain would take a look at the oil company’s earnings releases to get a clue on this topic.

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