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Political divide, will it get worse or better?

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  • Political divide, will it get worse or better?

    A shocking new poll from the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia reveals that over half of Trump voters surveyed, and 41% of Biden voters, are in favor of blue and/or red states seceding from the union. Yeah, it’s gotten that bad.

    The idea that the nation’s political divide has become so toxic that we should prepare from some sort of “national divorce” has largely been left to clever thought experiments best left for dinner parties and ironically detached columns. However, we’ve now arrived at a point where more than half of Trump voters “somewhat agree” that the time for secession is nigh.

    From the Center for Politics report:
    Significant numbers of both Trump and Biden voters show a willingness to consider violating democratic tendencies and norms if needed to serve their priorities. Roughly 2 in 10 Trump and Biden voters strongly agree it would be better if a “President could take needed actions without being constrained by Congress or courts,” and roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it’s time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union.

    The report continues by examining the broad political dissolution felt by members of both parties (emphasis mine.):
    — On one hand, roughly 80% of Trump and Biden voters view democracy as preferable to any non-democratic kind of government.

    — On the other hand, more than 6 in 10 Trump and Biden voters see America as less a representative democracy and more a system that is run by and rigged for the benefit of the wealthy.

    — Overall, more than two-thirds support — and one-third strongly — emboldening and empowering strong leaders and taking the law into their own hands when it comes to dealing with people or groups they view as dangerous.

    — And their willingness to consider violating democratic tendencies and norms extends beyond the hypothetical and to a dangerous and alarming finding: Roughly 2 in 10 Trump and Biden voters — or more than 31 million Americans — strongly agree it would be better if a “President could take needed actions without being constrained by Congress or courts” (as extrapolated from the results of this survey). Roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it’s time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union.

    A shocking YouGov poll in June found that 66% of Republicans in southern states want to secede from the United States. That survey, which was done in conjunction with BrightLineWatch, looked at the current political climate in America. The most stunning question concerned support or opposition for the state in which respondents lived in “seceding from the United States to join a new union with[list of states in new union]?”

    President Joe Biden largely ran on a platform of reunification, and despite an effective six first months of largely positive approval ratings, recent missteps in Afghanistan, and a resurgence of Covid infections, which is — ironically, largely due to a large percentage of Trump supporters refusal to get a vaccine — have led to his approval being underwater.





  • #2
    No one is interested in reconciliation, only divide. My way or the highway.

    That says it all.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post
      No one is interested in reconciliation, only divide. My way or the highway.

      That says it all.
      It’s not complicated, it’s values. There are those that value freedom, those that value equality, and those that value stability. Those 3 values are mutually exclusive. You can’t have all 3, or even 2 out of the 3. The motto of the French Revolution was “Liberty, Brotherhood, Equality!” And look what happened when they tried to get all 3.

      Balkanization is the best thing that can happen here. Commies should be able to live in their little pods, eat bugs, own nothing and be happy. Absolutists can live in their mercantilistic shithole, where muh white babies and muh white Jesus is the thing of the day, and you can ban the porn and ban the gays. And us degenerate individualists, just give us Alaska. Where we can live free and be away from all of you dipshits.

      Then everyone can live according to their values, and be happy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by spdirty View Post

        It’s not complicated, it’s values. There are those that value freedom, those that value equality, and those that value stability. Those 3 values are mutually exclusive. You can’t have all 3, or even 2 out of the 3. The motto of the French Revolution was “Liberty, Brotherhood, Equality!” And look what happened when they tried to get all 3.

        Balkanization is the best thing that can happen here. Commies should be able to live in their little pods, eat bugs, own nothing and be happy. Absolutists can live in their mercantilistic shithole, where muh white babies and muh white Jesus is the thing of the day, and you can ban the porn and ban the gays. And us degenerate individualists, just give us Alaska. Where we can live free and be away from all of you dipshits.

        Then everyone can live according to their values, and be happy.
        You do realize that the red states are deeply financially dependent on the blue ones, right? That blue states contribute more tax dollars than they get back and that red states take far more than they give? If the country were "Balkanized", the red states would need to immediately file for foreign aid.

        Also, it gets very cold and snows a lot in Alaska. Are you good at plowing snow?

        Comment


        • #5
          It’s the new American catchphrase! As Joe Biden and Democrats work harder and harder to destroy the country more people are vocalizing what they feel about the crazy old coot in the White House. The “F*** Joe Biden!” chants continue to spread across the country. This was the scene at Kid Rock’s Nashville bar this…

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

            You do realize that the red states are deeply financially dependent on the blue ones, right? That blue states contribute more tax dollars than they get back and that red states take far more than they give? If the country were "Balkanized", the red states would need to immediately file for foreign aid.

            Also, it gets very cold and snows a lot in Alaska. Are you good at plowing snow?
            Flyover states have meat & grain

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

              Flyover states have meat & grain
              So does California.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                So does California.
                Good for them. I’ll stick with the flyover states. I have a sister that lives in Northern California in the mountains. Beautiful country. Too many fires though.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                  Good for them. I’ll stick with the flyover states. I have a sister that lives in Northern California in the mountains. Beautiful country. Too many fires though.
                  Well quality of life in those flyover states is greatly enhanced due to them being heavily subsidized by the taxes paid by blue states, particularly California. Their economies would collapse without that financial support.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                    Well quality of life in those flyover states is greatly enhanced due to them being heavily subsidized by the taxes paid by blue states, particularly California. Their economies would collapse without that financial support.
                    Isn’t California broke? Less government. Less taxes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                      Isn’t California broke? Less government. Less taxes.
                      Far from it.... but Republicans did just waste close to $300 million there.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                        Far from it.... but Republicans did just waste close to $300 million there.
                        Is this the fiscal discipline they’re always sqwaking about? Classic!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                          You do realize that the red states are deeply financially dependent on the blue ones, right? That blue states contribute more tax dollars than they get back and that red states take far more than they give? If the country were "Balkanized", the red states would need to immediately file for foreign aid.

                          Ah, so because the “right” takes welfare too, that means we must bend over and let you **** us in the ass on all things?

                          Balkanization will change government spending habits. I mean, the current system is going to collapse, either by us eventually defaulting on our debts, or by causing hyperinflation to try to pay it off. So, new government has to balance its budget. And it’ll have to come up with a system where the actual real no shit culprit in all of this, the normy dipshit that demands all the welfare from the politician they elect, have very limited to no say in politics.

                          Maybe come up with a system where only the net taxpayer votes? So that responsible politicians that don’t just try to get their district the goodies hold office. Maybe politicians whose goal is to preserve the long term sustainability and viability of its country and citizens, rather than hand out gibs so they get re-elected.

                          Maybe states, or mini countries adopt the Singapore model. Since Singapore is basically only 60 years old, has no natural resources, and is number 1 in the world in basically everything good, like standard of living, education, and economic freedom.

                          Just, do what they do. FFS. Alaska would actually have a nice head start, given the richness of natural resources they have.

                          Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                          Also, it gets very cold and snows a lot in Alaska. Are you good at plowing snow? ​​
                          It’s cold and requires hard work and toughness to make it there. It’s basically commie proof. So yeah, let me just go where the commies aren’t.
                          Last edited by spdirty; 10-05-2021, 02:54 PM.

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                          • #14
                            My point was -- if the red states "seceded" and separated from the blue states, the blue states' taxes would no longer be going toward subsidization of red state budgets, which would then be -- "in the red" -- because they produce far less. The blue states' budgets, meanwhile -- would actually be wealthier than they are now.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                              My point was -- if the red states "seceded" and separated from the blue states, the blue states' taxes would no longer be going toward subsidization of red state budgets, which would then be -- "in the red" -- because they produce far less. The blue states' budgets, meanwhile -- would actually be wealthier than they are now.
                              I’m not thinking we need any other states subsidies.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                                I’m not thinking we need any other states subsidies.
                                Um, well, the red states certainly do receive other states subsidies.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                                  Um, well, the red states certainly do receive other states subsidies.
                                  Most states are larger than countries.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                                    Most states are larger than countries.
                                    Wait -- what? I'm confused as to your meaning here....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                                      Wait -- what? I'm confused as to your meaning here....
                                      Many states could operate independently.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                                        I’m not thinking we need any other states subsidies.
                                        Most Red States would’ve 3rd world Theocracies… lol… go ahead, sounds like a blast!

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Four out of every five states are operating in the red. The idea that any state could operate independently is tenuous. Which ones? Culture and regionalism transcend state boundaries. Ecology and natural resources also play a big part. The long-term viability and efficacy of any balkanized region would depend on relationships and alliances. A majority of states don't have enough resources to take care of their own as it is. Hence the imports and subsidization. There might be five or six total and most all of them are in the same area.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by Requiem View Post
                                            Four out of every five states are operating in the red. The idea that any state could operate independently is tenuous. Which ones? Culture and regionalism transcend state boundaries. Ecology and natural resources also play a big part. The long-term viability and efficacy of any balkanized region would depend on relationships and alliances. A majority of states don't have enough resources to take care of their own as it is. Hence the imports and subsidization. There might be five or six total and most all of them are in the same area.
                                            You’re not going to have 50 individual states acting as 50 individual countries. It obviously wouldn’t work. They didn’t even do that in the civil war secession. You’re going to have states that share the same values forming little smaller countries. How many of these will we have? I don’t know. But it absolutely could work. Then people get to move to and live in the country that represents their values. It’d be beautiful.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by B-Large View Post

                                              Most Red States would’ve 3rd world Theocracies… lol… go ahead, sounds like a blast!
                                              If that’s what they want to live in, who are you or I to tell them no?

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                                              • #24
                                                Americans value independence. We fought hard for it during the American Revolutionary War, and in the present day, we celebrate not only our freedom from the British crown but also our strong ability to rely upon ourselves as individuals. The past year and a half has been an especially big test of our independence, as Americans have been forced to stay much more isolated from others than usual during the COVID-19 pandemic. Thankfully, the distribution of the vaccine has allowed restrictions to become largely relaxed in recent months.

                                                The pandemic hasn’t just kept people physically apart, though. It’s also caused financial hardship, which has led many people to become at least temporarily more dependent on support from the federal government. Other people have become more dependent on personal vices, such as drinking and drugs, due to isolation and stress.

                                                In order to find out where Americans are the most self-reliant despite coronavirus, WalletHub compared the 50 states based on five sources of dependency: consumer finances, the government, the job market, international trade and personal vices. We broke down these categories into 39 key indicators of independence in order to determine which states are most self-sustaining.


                                                Main Findings

                                                https://wallethub.com/edu/most-independent-states/36426

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by Requiem View Post
                                                  Four out of every five states are operating in the red. The idea that any state could operate independently is tenuous. Which ones? Culture and regionalism transcend state boundaries. Ecology and natural resources also play a big part. The long-term viability and efficacy of any balkanized region would depend on relationships and alliances. A majority of states don't have enough resources to take care of their own as it is. Hence the imports and subsidization. There might be five or six total and most all of them are in the same area.
                                                  Texas

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