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  • The anatomy of an OrangeHuddle Politics & Religion forum scrum.

    I was asked to look at the Kyle Rittenhouse thread as the place where LABF had created trouble yesterday.

    So, here is how I feel about where and how this thread sort of went off the rails.

    In post 501 (page 26 of the thread), LABF provided a link, without comment, to a press release from the Citizen Action of Wisconsin (it was the one about the verdict being a result of racist ideology). For the record, I see absolutely no problem with this post, from a board perspective. That’s not to say I agree with the sentiment from the release. But I don’t need to agree with it for it to be within the rules.

    In post 519, Bama responds to post 501, with a personal commentary about LABF. To be honest, this seems to be the post where things go a little sideways. Joe piles on with a quick response on the next post, and then Atwater attacks LABF personally in post 521 (in response to a post where LABF didn’t say anything about anyone personally in the forum).

    The rest of that page is just…weird. A small handful of you just pile on with further comments. LABF doesn’t address any of you directly. Then, on the next page (page 28 in the thread), a poster goes to the pedophile thing (again).

    That whole exchange seems to be a circle jerk about what an asshole LABF is. Meanwhile, LABF, who has many on ignore, doesn’t even appear to know he’s been trashed.

    Can someone please explain to me what I am missing? If I was really trying to moderate that thread fairly, there might have been three or four PnR timeouts given (as it stands, there was one). None of those would have been LABF. To be clear, I don’t want anyone telling me what a turd LABF is. I just want to have someone point out where I am wrong, from an Orange Huddle rules perspective.

  • #2
    Okay, another one that was mentioned was in the “An Open Challenge to the Forum” thread. There is at least a bit of nuance in this one.

    Going back several pages, it’s clear that LABF is more aggressive here. On several occasions, he expresses his personal disgust about all things Trump. The part I am looking at starts on page 6, with post #112. This is where it gets a little gray. Swaiy responds to a tned comment, clarifying some language (“a lot”) used in the comment. In post #112, LABF responds to swaiy’s comment with a general comment about “MAGA strategy.” One could infer from LABF’s comment that his intent was to reference it back directly to tned. In that case, it would look more like a direct attack.

    In that situation, I would probably go back to LABF and ask him to change his post so that it no longer seems to infer anything about tned. Would it result in time off from the forum? Probably not this time. But if similar stuff continued to happen, it almost certainly would.

    But let’s make one distinction clear. I am not going to get on LABF for feeling that certain national political groups incorporate some racist ideology. That is not a direct attack on any poster here, regardless of whether or not you identify with any of the groups LABF is referring to. In the same way, I wouldn’t get on nyuk (she’s not here, but it’s just an example) for saying that Bernie Sanders is a communist – regardless of the fact that Bernie Sanders has passionate supporters on the board. Or, how about a poster saying liberal policy shows they’re complicit in murdering babies? I don’t see that as a personal attack on any or all of the liberals who post on the forum.

    Hopefully, I’ve made sense.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DomCasual
      Can someone please explain to me what I am missing?
      Perhaps it’s the palpable sense of entitlement and privilege that drips from the OH Trump contingent’s every complaint.

      These, after all, are people who believe America, and, by extension, everything in it - including this message board - is theirs by right.

      Therefore, they feel fully justified in ignoring rules and standards of conduct whenever they feel their status or power are threatened.

      As I mentioned to Blue earlier, it’s easy to get the impression that these people see the admin and mods as valets who are expected to cater to them and to always see conflicts their way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post

        Perhaps it’s the palpable sense of entitlement and privilege that drips from the OH Trump contingent’s every complaint.

        These, after all, are people who believe America, and, by extension, everything in it - including this message board - is theirs by right.

        Therefore, they feel fully justified in ignoring rules and standards of conduct whenever they feel their status or power are threatened.

        As I mentioned to Blue earlier, it’s easy to get the impression that these people see the admin and mods as valets who are expected to cater to them and to always see conflicts their way.
        Nah. We'd just like you to be a better person who doesn't view the world through eye-blinders.

        Comment


        • #5
          Also, I'd like some clarification on "Joe piles on" you referenced. I looked at your links, and didn't see anything. At least anything worse than LaBron posts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BroncoJoe View Post

            Nah. We'd just like you to be a better person who doesn't view the world through eye-blinders.
            This is your privilege talking, Joe...

            Comment


            • #7
              Each of us is only in control of our own worldview perspectives ... others are always going to see things differently and that's ok.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                Each of us is only in control of our own worldview perspectives ... others are always going to see things differently and that's ok.
                It's not just OK, it's healthy and it COULD make for some great debate and discourse. It COULD.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BroncoJoe View Post
                  Also, I'd like some clarification on "Joe piles on" you referenced. I looked at your links, and didn't see anything. At least anything worse than LaBron posts.
                  Sure. I'm simply referring to posting "Agreed" after Bama's post. You're right. It's nothing major. It wasn't really meant to be critical of you, per se. I just mentioned it in relation to how the opposition became sort of a group thing. You would have come through all that just fine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DomCasual

                    That whole exchange seems to be a circle jerk about what an asshole LABF is. Meanwhile, LABF, who has many on ignore, doesn’t even appear to know he’s been trashed.
                    Reveals a lot, doesn’t it?

                    That is, I’ve been doing my part by pulling back on the name-calling, personal insults, etc., and have put most, if not all, Trump backers on ignore.

                    However, I’ve seen little if any reciprocity on their part.

                    In fact, it seems like most of them would prefer to go on whining in perpetuity and bringing frivolous charges than to avail themselves of the ignore feature.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All I know is the Democratic Party must be purged

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wasn't going to comment on this anymore, but since Dom just asked for constructive feedback/input, I'm going to take one last go at this well and then wash my hands of it and let Dom decide what he wants to do.

                        The only meaningful contribution is it's time for LABF to give the racist shit a rest. It's not constructive, and it's daily. Let's not pretend it's not.

                        He fully admitted one of his bait posts about those of us referring to people that burned Minneapolis and the like, "looters" and "rioters" and said, paraphrasing, that this has been happening since the civil rights act.

                        Doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that he's calling those of us that call rioters, rioters, and those of us call looters, looters, are racist.

                        However, if there was any doubt, when I brought it to Blue's attention, and she quoted my post, saying she saw nothing wrong with it, he then quoted her, and I "quote", LABF said, "Nothing decrying white nationalists was directed at him personally - yet he still responds with knee-jerk defensiveness. Interesting how that works."

                        Hence, he fully admits that his comment about those of us that refer to rioters as rioters and looters, are white nationalist, because he couldn't help himself but take an extra jab at me "him" in his quote above.

                        Make no doubt that this wasn't about random MAGA people making this comment, as he replied to Swaiya who quoted me as we were discussing whether all protestors, and 1/6 rallyers, were rioters.

                        Let's look at that again, "Nothing decrying white nationalists was directed at him personally - yet he still responds with knee-jerk defensiveness. Interesting how that works." He not ONLY admits his post was calling us white nationalists, but makes a crack about me getting defensive about it, clearly doubly down on me being a white nationalist, or defending white nationalists -- you decide, but it isn't some innocent post about some people in Charlottesville, or in DC on January 6th, and let's stop pretending it is.

                        He's so intent on attacking, that he always needs to get these second and third barbs in, so if there was any doubt (which there isn't, but I know you guys are trying to avoid ticky tack fouls, like calling conservatives racist, "subtly"), he makes clear that his post was calling us racists.

                        Blues, "we have a tool...." comment she keeps repeating, obviously doesn't work, since LABF claims to have us all on ignore, but regularly, MANY times a day, such as with the list of false reporting by MSM I posted today, directs snide, if not outright attacks our way, like his racist rant above or making a crack about my false MSM stories, that according to Blue he can't see, because he has me on ignore and he is praised for that, he makes cracks about my lack of citations, etc., etc. I have not problem with that, it's a fair comment, even if he does it as a snide jab, but I bring it up to get past the farse of "if we put each other on ignore, like would be grand."

                        I'm an adult. I expect to have adult conversations. I'm fully capable of being a dick if that's the environment we/you want, but the fact that we "pretend" that all these cracks by LABF aren't DIRECT PERSONAL attacks, quite honestly offends my sense of honesty and fair play. Let's sling mud, or let's not sling mud, but let's not pretend LABF isn't smearing excrement all over our proverbially walls.

                        I get it, I can suck it up and swallow, and constantly be told, if I only had him on ignore.... And also had on ignore EVERYONE that quotes him, all would be grand in the world. So, who does that leave. Do I only leave Dom, who's rarely posting in here, off ignore, so I never see LABF being quoted, calling us racists?? So I never see me, Joe, Atwater and others constantly being called racist, multiple times a day?

                        If so, what's the point of having the forum.

                        As i said, maybe it's better to create a liberal echo chamber sub forum, and another conservative echo chamber forum, then each side can post meaningless, one sided digs at each other, with nobody getting offended and no meaningful dialogue.

                        Not my forum, so not my decision, and I'll even suck it up and swallow if that's what I'm continuously told to do, and us conservatives can decide if we want to frequent a place that allows someone like LABF to insult us in one of the most horrible ways possible, DAILY, or move on.

                        I don't care enough to look back through this for typos, so please excuse them. I hope you take this for how it's meant, which is to be constructive feedback on how to keep from having to deal with this same argument every single day. I'll abide by whatever you say, including if you decide to keep letting him call us racist daily, even if that means I walk (I know, not some big loss)

                        But, I'm not a ****ING RACIST AND DO NOT ACCEPT BEING CALLED ONE DAILY.

                        /rant

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My constructive criticism is that they do not want conservatives posting here and tned and anyone else would be better off just ignoring this section of forum until people realizes it needs to change.

                          I'm just going to post general section because football is what I come here for. I came in here and see labf here doing the same stuff he does everywhere I've posted. That's my 2 cents and I'm just going to post in general section. Look what was posted in the other why do this thread.
                          Shane said the truth before leaving. So I'm done with this section before I even start.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is a thread called "like nazis and fascist , republicans must be purged"

                            What kind of sicko place is this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just a thought:

                              Rather than continuing with his campaign to pressure the admin into declaring certain discussion topics off limits, perhaps Tned should try a little introspection and ask himself why discussions about racism or white nationalism bother him so much.

                              And, for God’s sake, use the friggin’ ignore feature!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
                                Just a thought:

                                Rather than continuing with his campaign to pressure the admin into declaring certain discussion topics off limits, perhaps Tned should try a little introspection and ask himself why discussions about racism or white nationalism bother him so much.

                                And, for God’s sake, use the friggin’ ignore feature!
                                Really, shall we continue to pretend what his comments mean?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
                                  Just a thought:

                                  Rather than continuing with his campaign to pressure the admin into declaring certain discussion topics off limits, perhaps Tned should try a little introspection and ask himself why discussions about racism or white nationalism bother him so much.

                                  And, for God’s sake, use the friggin’ ignore feature!
                                  Why do comments about pedophilia bother you? My guess is for the same reason it bothers me when you call me a racist.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Labf just called tned a closet racist. Will he be banned?

                                    No time to move on.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by DomCasual
                                      That’s not to say I agree with the sentiment from the release. But I don’t need to agree with it for it to be within the rules.
                                      A distinction which, unfortunately, seems to be completely lost on Tned and his posse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
                                        Just a thought:

                                        Rather than continuing with his campaign to pressure the admin into declaring certain discussion topics off limits, perhaps Tned should try a little introspection and ask himself why discussions about racism or white nationalism bother him so much.

                                        And, for God’s sake, use the friggin’ ignore feature!
                                        In fairness, I didn't even have to read further in the thread to know that tned was going to reply something to the effect of, "let's turn that question around to you, and make it about pedophilia."

                                        I don't think any decent person wants to be falsely accused of being either of those things.

                                        I don't think it's asking too much to have you tone it down on the racism stuff. Don't even imply it about anyone here, at all. Race issues in America is a problem with a millions shades of gray. I have never seen a single post on the Orange Huddle that has made me stop and think, "That person is racist." And tned, don't look for secret messages in anything LABF says.

                                        I don't really know where else to go with that. The alternative is just turning it off for a few days whenever things escalate. That will eventually lead to turning it off for good. I'm getting there.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by DomCasual View Post

                                          In fairness, I didn't even have to read further in the thread to know that tned was going to reply something to the effect of, "let's turn that question around to you, and make it about pedophilia."

                                          I don't think any decent person wants to be falsely accused of being either of those things.

                                          I don't think it's asking too much to have you tone it down on the racism stuff. Don't even imply it about anyone here, at all. Race issues in America is a problem with a millions shades of gray. I have never seen a single post on the Orange Huddle that has made me stop and think, "That person is racist." And tned, don't look for secret messages in anything LABF says.

                                          I don't really know where else to go with that. The alternative is just turning it off for a few days whenever things escalate. That will eventually lead to turning it off for good. I'm getting there.
                                          One critical difference is that, while I have never accused anyone of racism without offering evidence and/or a reasoned argument to support such a charge, the Trump posse has repeatedly failed to provide any evidence for their trumped-up (pun intended) child abuse allegations.

                                          Moreover, whenever I (or anyone) broaches the subject of the racists and white nationalists who do, in fact, populate Trump's base, and who have hailed Trump as their champion, the Trumpsters on the forum invariably try to recast such observations or discussions as personal affronts or attacks.

                                          I don't really know where else to go with that.
                                          One idea: If people refuse to use the ignore feature as a means of defusing conflict and/or avoiding the urge to deluge admin and mods with incessant complaints, then the admin or mods could make ignoring mandatory for a prescribed period (just as with temporary bans, etc.) Sort of like the virtual equivalent of separating two (or more) people who are fighting. Gets the job done and is less severe than a ban. Just a thought.

                                          That will eventually lead to turning it off for good. I'm getting there.
                                          That's exactly what the Trump people want. In fact, achieving that end is part and parcel of their present strategy, I would submit. It's instructive to remember these same people tried to wear TJ down on the OM with their constant whining and complaining in their efforts to get the WRP sub-forum shut down. It's not enough for them to have the power to opt out - they're not satisfied until they nuke it for everyone.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by Tned View Post
                                            I wasn't going to comment on this anymore, but since Dom just asked for constructive feedback/input, I'm going to take one last go at this well and then wash my hands of it and let Dom decide what he wants to do.

                                            The only meaningful contribution is it's time for LABF to give the racist shit a rest. It's not constructive, and it's daily. Let's not pretend it's not.

                                            He fully admitted one of his bait posts about those of us referring to people that burned Minneapolis and the like, "looters" and "rioters" and said, paraphrasing, that this has been happening since the civil rights act.

                                            Doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that he's calling those of us that call rioters, rioters, and those of us call looters, looters, are racist.

                                            However, if there was any doubt, when I brought it to Blue's attention, and she quoted my post, saying she saw nothing wrong with it, he then quoted her, and I "quote", LABF said, "Nothing decrying white nationalists was directed at him personally - yet he still responds with knee-jerk defensiveness. Interesting how that works."

                                            Hence, he fully admits that his comment about those of us that refer to rioters as rioters and looters, are white nationalist, because he couldn't help himself but take an extra jab at me "him" in his quote above.

                                            Make no doubt that this wasn't about random MAGA people making this comment, as he replied to Swaiya who quoted me as we were discussing whether all protestors, and 1/6 rallyers, were rioters.

                                            Let's look at that again, "Nothing decrying white nationalists was directed at him personally - yet he still responds with knee-jerk defensiveness. Interesting how that works." He not ONLY admits his post was calling us white nationalists, but makes a crack about me getting defensive about it, clearly doubly down on me being a white nationalist, or defending white nationalists -- you decide, but it isn't some innocent post about some people in Charlottesville, or in DC on January 6th, and let's stop pretending it is.

                                            He's so intent on attacking, that he always needs to get these second and third barbs in, so if there was any doubt (which there isn't, but I know you guys are trying to avoid ticky tack fouls, like calling conservatives racist, "subtly"), he makes clear that his post was calling us racists.

                                            Blues, "we have a tool...." comment she keeps repeating, obviously doesn't work, since LABF claims to have us all on ignore, but regularly, MANY times a day, such as with the list of false reporting by MSM I posted today, directs snide, if not outright attacks our way, like his racist rant above or making a crack about my false MSM stories, that according to Blue he can't see, because he has me on ignore and he is praised for that, he makes cracks about my lack of citations, etc., etc. I have not problem with that, it's a fair comment, even if he does it as a snide jab, but I bring it up to get past the farse of "if we put each other on ignore, like would be grand."

                                            I'm an adult. I expect to have adult conversations. I'm fully capable of being a dick if that's the environment we/you want, but the fact that we "pretend" that all these cracks by LABF aren't DIRECT PERSONAL attacks, quite honestly offends my sense of honesty and fair play. Let's sling mud, or let's not sling mud, but let's not pretend LABF isn't smearing excrement all over our proverbially walls.

                                            I get it, I can suck it up and swallow, and constantly be told, if I only had him on ignore.... And also had on ignore EVERYONE that quotes him, all would be grand in the world. So, who does that leave. Do I only leave Dom, who's rarely posting in here, off ignore, so I never see LABF being quoted, calling us racists?? So I never see me, Joe, Atwater and others constantly being called racist, multiple times a day?

                                            If so, what's the point of having the forum.

                                            As i said, maybe it's better to create a liberal echo chamber sub forum, and another conservative echo chamber forum, then each side can post meaningless, one sided digs at each other, with nobody getting offended and no meaningful dialogue.

                                            Not my forum, so not my decision, and I'll even suck it up and swallow if that's what I'm continuously told to do, and us conservatives can decide if we want to frequent a place that allows someone like LABF to insult us in one of the most horrible ways possible, DAILY, or move on.

                                            I don't care enough to look back through this for typos, so please excuse them. I hope you take this for how it's meant, which is to be constructive feedback on how to keep from having to deal with this same argument every single day. I'll abide by whatever you say, including if you decide to keep letting him call us racist daily, even if that means I walk (I know, not some big loss)

                                            But, I'm not a ****ING RACIST AND DO NOT ACCEPT BEING CALLED ONE DAILY.

                                            /rant
                                            He writes
                                            “The MAGA strategy should be clear by now:

                                            Tar anyone who protests racial injustice/police brutality with the “rioter” or “looter” brush. (Some things haven’t changed since the era of the Civil Rights Act.)”

                                            that’s a ****ing bullshit post pulled straight from a bulls asshole. I vote Republican. I don’t call people peacefully protesting looters or rioters. That term is reserved for people that are burning shit down and robbing target stores.

                                            Do people not know the damn difference

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              At some point even the most patient of forum admins is going to grow weary of the bickering and whining... I've found myself thinking "Dang it, not this stupid garbage yet again"....

                                              ... And I don't ever want to lose my patience but it gets so tiresome sometimes. *sigh*

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                                                At some point even the most patient of forum admins is going to grow weary of the bickering and whining... I've found myself thinking "Dang it, not this stupid garbage yet again"....

                                                ... And I don't ever want to lose my patience but it gets so tiresome sometimes. *sigh*
                                                The people who are doing the lion's share of the whining are counting on it.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post

                                                  The people who are doing the lion's share of the whining are counting on it.
                                                  How did you know?!

                                                  Comment

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