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**Mile High Salute** · 07-19-2023, 03:46 AM

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**gunns** · 07-19-2023, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Zerovoltz

....Denver sure seems to have been employing a lot of football players that no one is interested in signing in FA, and even the ones that have found jobs elsewhere, only Dremont Jones got a big payday.

It's been .....something...... listening to the collective Broncos fan base talk about how great the roster was over the past few years and that it only needed the right QB to win.

Narrarator: "...but it wasn't"

Have to agree. I don't believe the roster was that good over the last 7 years, but I do believe some of the coaches had a lot to do with it and a QB still wouldn't have done us any good. Now, if Russell gets back to QB status, I still worry about where the defense is and could be our downfall this year. And I don't remember a bunch of people thinking the roster was that great. There wouldn't have been so much complaining about the draft and free agent pickups if that were the case. Players here and there but not the roster.

**bronco militia** · 07-19-2023, 06:43 AM

The proof is in the results.

**cousinal11** · 07-19-2023, 07:32 AM

...and a Head Coach that has an IQ over 7.

**Ark** · 07-19-2023, 08:26 AM

How many more games per season could a Mahomes or Elway have won over the likes of a Bridgewater, Flacco, or Keenum? What about last year? How many of those 10 losses by one score would Mahomes have won?

**Strip Sacked** · 07-19-2023, 09:37 AM

God i've missed hating this guy...

**qbronco** · 07-19-2023, 10:17 AM

**cmhargrove** · 07-19-2023, 01:03 PM

Feels like some logical fallacies going on here. I'm not sure that "big free agent contracts" equal a Superbowl roster, or even a highly competitive one.

In 2016, the Broncos lost some players but II think the big FA contracts went to Malik and Osweiler. Osweiler didn't pan out, and Malik had already given us his best years.

Also, not sure how the slew of injuries correlates here. We've employed a lot of lesser players because of injuries - and most of our starting core is still under contract.

I know you're reaching here and just trying to talk smack, but I don't think the point has much bearing on the current state of the roster. The fact is, our starters were injured and also underperformed. A healthy start (with a proven coach) should show us where we really stand by about game 5. The Raiders, Dolphins, and Jets should be dogfights, the Commanders and Bears are "must win" games if our roster (and coach) are doing their jobs.

**Zerovoltz** · 07-19-2023, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by cmhargrove

Feels like some logical fallacies going on here. I'm not sure that "big free agent contracts" equal a Superbowl roster, or even a highly competitive one.

In 2016, the Broncos lost some players but II think the big FA contracts went to Malik and Osweiler. Osweiler didn't pan out, and Malik had already given us his best years.

Also, not sure how the slew of injuries correlates here. We've employed a lot of lesser players because of injuries - and most of our starting core is still under contract.

I know you're reaching here and just trying to talk smack, but I don't think the point has much bearing on the current state of the roster. The fact is, our starters were injured and also underperformed. A healthy start (with a proven coach) should show us where we really stand by about game 5. The Raiders, Dolphins, and Jets should be dogfights, the Commanders and Bears are "must win" games if our roster (and coach) are doing their jobs.

So you're saying they were just a QB away then, with better injury luck?

**gunns** · 07-19-2023, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Zerovoltz

So you're saying they were just a QB away then, with better injury luck?

Not with VJ, Fangio, or Hackett. QB wouldn't have made a world of difference. The injury thing was a great deflection for an under performing team. The players weren't that great to begin with.

**Ark** · 07-19-2023, 01:23 PM

Chiefs would have been 0-2 vs the Broncos if we switched QBs in those two games. So we are both just a QB away, and you got the QB.

**Ark** · 07-19-2023, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by gunns

Not with VJ, Fangio, or Hackett. QB wouldn't have made a world of difference. The injury thing was a great deflection for an under performing team. The players weren't that great to begin with.

I think every team is a QB away in today’s QB friendly league. Every team has talent at this level and it’s spread pretty even across all teams with this parity. Gotta have good coaching though. I agree.

**-Rod-** · 07-19-2023, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by gunns

QB wouldn't have made a world of difference. The injury thing was a great deflection for an under performing team.

Fangio lost 13 games by 7 points or less as the Broncos HC. Do you really think a QB would not have made a difference? I'm not even talking about elite QB play, but going from a QB like Lock or Bridgewater throwing 16-18 TDs in a season to a QB like Kirk Cousins that throws around 30 TDs... The difference would have been considerable. Hackett lost 8 games by 7 points or less while Wilson threw only 16 TDs. With a QB throwing 30 TDs, we are talking about 98 more points to be distributed considering the 6 PTS + the XP.

And here's the "deflection" in regards to the injuries:

Injuries caused the disaster that was the Broncos 2022 season

https://www.milehighreport.com/2023/3/10/23632711/injuries-caused-disaster-broncos-2022-season

For the eighth straight season, this year’s Broncos were more injured than the last

AGL 2022: Injuries Help Lead to Broncos Trainwreck

Usually, a trainwreck leads to injuries. In the NFL, however, injuries help lead to a trainwreck. That was certainly the case in Denver this season, as the Broncos led the NFL in Football Outsiders' adjusted games lost metric which measures injuries to starters and important situational players.

Denver has ranked in the bottom 10 for AGL for four straight seasons.

Injuries caused the disaster that was the Broncos 2022 season

https://www.milehighreport.com/2023/3/10/23632711/injuries-caused-disaster-broncos-2022-season

For the eighth straight season, this year’s Broncos were more injured than the last

Football outsiders published their adjusted games lost data for the NFL 2022 season. The Broncos, as expected, led the league in AGL, which is a bad thing. The Bronco value of 148.6 was the highest in the league and was significantly larger than the second worst team - the Titans - at 122.9. The AGL for the 2022 Denver Broncos was one of the ten highest in the league dating back to the 2010 season when FO started gathering this data.

The Broncos 148.6 was the sixth highest AGL value in history.

**gunns** · 07-19-2023, 03:36 PM

As I wrote, "The players weren't that great to begin with." For the most part if they had been playing it wouldn't have made a "world of difference". I'm not saying a good QB wouldn't have changed things somewhat but Denver needed much more than just a good QB.

**BamaBronco16** · 07-19-2023, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Ark

How many more games per season could a Mahomes or Elway have won over the likes of a Bridgewater, Flacco, or Keenum? What about last year? How many of those 10 losses by one score would Mahomes have won?

Somebody is not wanting to answer this question. I wonder what the record would have been the last two seasons if Denver did have a QB like MaHomie instead. Hmm.

**Strip Sacked** · 07-19-2023, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by BamaBronco16

Somebody is not wanting to answer this question. I wonder what the record would have been the last two seasons if Denver did have a QB like MaHomie instead. Hmm.

Sadly, I would not be surprised in the slightest if a coach as lost and unprepared as Hackett just might have the world thinking that Mahomes was a "flash in the pan" - Need I remind anyone he had 70,000 some-odd people counting down our own play-clock? Disgraceful

**Old Coyote** · 07-19-2023, 05:53 PM

If we had a good pocket QB last year or a coach that used MR limited in the limited way he is good and we had Williams not hurt... Then maybe...

If we got A-Rodgers, and didn't see Williams go down. Possibly could have been good.

but as is...

We stink until we don't.

**elsid13** · 07-19-2023, 07:23 PM

Bobo the Loser > Zero.

**RockyMountainOyster** · 07-20-2023, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Ark

How many more games per season could a Mahomes or Elway have won over the likes of a Bridgewater, Flacco, or Keenum? What about last year? How many of those 10 losses by one score would Mahomes have won?

There you have it. All you have to do is find a Mahomes and you’re golden.

**ceh** · 07-20-2023, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by RockyMountainOyster

There you have it. All you have to do is find a Mahomes and you’re golden.

that’s really it.
the same 5-6 QBs compete every year for Lombardi. everyone else is trying to find that QB.

**RockyMountainOyster** · 07-20-2023, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by ceh

that’s really it.
the same 5-6 QBs compete every year for Lombardi. everyone else is trying to find that QB.

There’s a massive difference between, say, the Eagles’ roster and Denver’s. The Broncos could add a QB of Hurts’ caliber and still wouldn’t measure up. So they might be a QB away from the playoffs, but not a SB.

**Strip Sacked** · 07-20-2023, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by RockyMountainOyster

There’s a massive difference between, say, the Eagles’ roster and Denver’s. The Broncos could add a QB of Hurts’ caliber and still wouldn’t measure up. So they might be a QB away from the playoffs, but not a SB.

While this may be true, I think coaching plays way too big a role. I feel like The Broncos could add a QB like Hurts and have a 'wow' coach (Please be S.P.?) and this team can be talented enough to make a run. Then again this team could have a QB like Hurts and have Hackett at coach, and we'd be lucky to win anything

**Strip Sacked** · 07-20-2023, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Old Coyote

If we had a good pocket QB last year or a coach that used MR limited in the limited way he is good and we had Williams not hurt... Then maybe...

If we got A-Rodgers, and didn't see Williams go down. Possibly could have been good.

but as is...

We stink until we don't.

I'm going to sound like a broken Hackett hating record but... No.. This team was too unprepared. Too undisciplined. The BS fight that happened on Christmas night, the handling of the Melvin Gordon fiasco. This team did not belong on a professional football field. We were day and night improved (I wont say 'better'.. lol) when Jerry Rosburg took over, and that man hasn't coached a pro team in his life, fresh out of retirement.

**Old Coyote** · 07-20-2023, 07:58 PM

Good QB play could have had our weapons on fire. Still, we were not a QB away. We were possibles with a really good QB like Rodgers or Cousins.
But with the Hobbit the moment Williams went down we lost the middle short as a threat.

And I don't know that a really good QB could have saved us with Williams injury having him out. That's a maybe too.

Our offensive Coaching was basic couldn't adjust and all around sucked balls.
Our D was legit though. They actually blitzed way more than I gave em credit for too. A legit D and a good QB can carry a stupid coach... But only sometimes.

we have a lot of good in the tried to get better area. But tried means failed to yet.

This year begins the run of an established coach with his way as the blueprint.

I'm down to see the team rise even if it's baby steppin this year.

Go Broncos!

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