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SCOTUS to hear challenge to POTUS vaccine mandates

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  • SCOTUS to hear challenge to POTUS vaccine mandates

    Seems to just be breaking in the last hour and not seeing much detail, other than the Supreme Court will hear a challenge to the Biden vaccine mandate.

  • #2
    The Supreme Court late Wednesday agreed to hear legal challenges to the Biden administration’s mandates that employees of large companies and health-care workers be vaccinated against Covid-19.

    The court in its order said that its consideration for requests to stay those mandates would be deferred until oral argument on Jan. 7.

    There are two separate cases asking for such a stay. The Supreme Court consolidated the applications of those cases, both of which will be heard Jan. 7.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/22/supr...-mandates.html

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    • #3
      We knew it would come to this. Praying they do the right thing.

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      • #4
        I haven't taken the time to research the laws or precedent that would come into play with this, and typically try not to comment too much without doing that basic research. However, it sure feels like executive overreach to me have the President issue a vaccine mandate and use department of labor/Osha to enforce it.

        That said, I think there is precedent stating employers can require employees to be vaccinated, so the question is whether there is law/precedent for a Presidential edict to force businesses to do so or fine them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tned View Post
          I haven't taken the time to research the laws or precedent that would come into play with this, and typically try not to comment too much without doing that basic research. However, it sure feels like executive overreach to me have the President issue a vaccine mandate and use department of labor/Osha to enforce it.

          That said, I think there is precedent stating employers can require employees to be vaccinated, so the question is whether there is law/precedent for a Presidential edict to force businesses to do so or fine them.
          I’m sure there will be plenty of articles. 3 justices will get it right.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

            I’m sure there will be plenty of articles. 3 justices will get it right.
            I tend to not rely much on articles, as almost all "news" these days is biased either strongly left or right, depending on the source. At some point I'll dig into previous SCOTUS rulings and read the majority and dissenting opinions (I think there are other cases about OSHA emergency rules and SCOTUS rulings about employers forcing vaccinations) and that will likely give some color to the legal aspect of this case.

            I'm one of those geeky people that enjoys reading SCOTUS rulings. The topic has to be interesting such as reading the original 1906, or something like that, ruling that's been abused and misused (in my opinion) as it relates to anchor babies.

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            • #7
              OK, it might be a sickness. I've found a 1905 opinion (Jacobson vs. Mass) that found that the state could a vaccine mandate in order to quell small pox.

              Since I'm off until after the first, I think I'm going to start with the 1905 case and then check out all other SCOTUS rulings from then until now related to vaccine mandates (state, federal or employer).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tned View Post
                However, it sure feels like executive overreach to me have the President issue a vaccine mandate and use department of labor/Osha to enforce it.
                "Executive overreach?"

                LOL! 😂

                ...According to the Fred W. Smith National Library for Study of George Washington, Washington and his Continental Army "faced a threat that proved deadlier than the British" in the first years of the Revolutionary War — smallpox.

                Infrequent outbreaks and wariness of inoculation made his troops very susceptible to the disease," according to the library. "After heavy losses in Boston and Quebec, Washington implemented the first mass immunization policy in American history."

                Washington issued the order to have all troops inoculated on Feb. 5, 1777, in a letter to John Hancock, who was president of the Second Continental Congress. In another letter, Washington ordered all recruits arriving in Philadelphia be inoculated.

                https://www.wral.com/fact-check-did-...army/19807935/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tned View Post
                  OK, it might be a sickness. I've found a 1905 opinion (Jacobson vs. Mass) that found that the state could a vaccine mandate in order to quell small pox.

                  Since I'm off until after the first, I think I'm going to start with the 1905 case and then check out all other SCOTUS rulings from then until now related to vaccine mandates (state, federal or employer).
                  You might enjoy reading this with respect to the decision you are referencing.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tned View Post
                    OK, it might be a sickness. I've found a 1905 opinion (Jacobson vs. Mass) that found that the state could a vaccine mandate in order to quell small pox.

                    Since I'm off until after the first, I think I'm going to start with the 1905 case and then check out all other SCOTUS rulings from then until now related to vaccine mandates (state, federal or employer).
                    Darn! Just when the vaccine refuseniks were about to grab hold of the rope you were trying to throw them...

                    BTW, still chuckling at the idea of a tRump supporter sounding alarms re: "executive overreach."

                    Thanks for that knee slapper.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post
                      We knew it would come to this. Praying they do the right thing.
                      Hope for the best, but expect them to cuck out. Remember, they are scared to death that Biden will stack the court if they, say, get in his way a little too much.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spdirty View Post

                        Hope for the best, but expect them to cuck out. Remember, they are scared to death that Biden will stack the court if they, say, get in his way a little too much.
                        Right, absolute power corrupts, power corrupts absolutely.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post

                          Darn! Just when the vaccine refuseniks were about to grab hold of the rope you were trying to throw them...

                          BTW, still chuckling at the idea of a tRump supporter sounding alarms re: "executive overreach."

                          Thanks for that knee slapper.
                          Can you remind which of the Trump executive orders I supported. I've forgotten, but apparently you are fully aware of that factoid.

                          LBAF, Try Harder. Be Better.

                          Honest and integrity is nothing for you to fear. Try having a civil discussion, you might surprise yourself and find you actually enjoy it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Requiem View Post

                            You might enjoy reading this with respect to the decision you are referencing.
                            I think a few of the factors, based on law and precedent, will likely be:

                            Can the federal government make such a mandate vs. a state mandate?
                            Can the President unilaterally make the mandate (assuming it is constitutional to have a federal mandate)?
                            Can they force the employers to enforce it and fine them if they don't?

                            I'm sure there are others, but those are three things that initially come to mind.

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                            • #15
                              Anybody want to tell me the difference in the Smallpox vaccine and the Covid19 shot?

                              Here's the Smallpox vaccine. Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

                              Key take from this. The smallpox vaccine protects people from smallpox by helping their bodies develop immunity to smallpox.

                              The Covid19 shot does not do this, thus it has no chance to eliminate the Covid19 virus from the world like the smallpox vaccine did.

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                              • #16
                                Neighbor has had both shots and the booster.

                                He's stuck at home with COVID.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by BamaBronco16 View Post
                                  Anybody want to tell me the difference in the Smallpox vaccine and the Covid19 shot?

                                  Here's the Smallpox vaccine. Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

                                  Key take from this. The smallpox vaccine protects people from smallpox by helping their bodies develop immunity to smallpox.

                                  The Covid19 shot does not do this, thus it has no chance to eliminate the Covid19 virus from the world like the smallpox vaccine did.
                                  OK, so what does the "Covid19 shot" do?

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by BroncoJoe View Post
                                    Neighbor has had both shots and the booster.

                                    He's stuck at home with COVID.
                                    It was 75-85% effective against Delta, but only 40-60% effective against Omicron.

                                    Even with Delta, and presumably Omicron, the vaccinated that did get it tended to have far milder cases.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by BroncoJoe View Post
                                      Neighbor has had both shots and the booster.

                                      He's stuck at home with COVID.
                                      But because he's vaccinated, he will probably just be stuck at home for a while (he most likely won't require hospitalization and he probably won't die).

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Tned View Post

                                        It was 75-85% effective against Delta, but only 40-60% effective against Omicron.

                                        Even with Delta, and presumably Omicron, the vaccinated that did get it tended to have far milder cases.
                                        Milder cases. How would you know?

                                        Boosters into perpetuity. Since it’s clearly ineffective in helping you avoid it, that’s what the pharmaceuticals would have to say.

                                        Make you sure you get 1. Wait, you need 2.

                                        We are still getting it???

                                        You need 3 & 4…

                                        Huh? Will this end? If we all mask up for two weeks it will flatten the curve.

                                        Snake oil is conquering the planet.

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                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by BroncoJoe View Post
                                          Neighbor has had both shots and the booster.

                                          He's stuck at home with COVID.
                                          Yep, snake oil.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by BamaBronco16 View Post
                                            Anybody want to tell me the difference in the Smallpox vaccine and the Covid19 shot?

                                            Here's the Smallpox vaccine. Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

                                            Key take from this. The smallpox vaccine protects people from smallpox by helping their bodies develop immunity to smallpox.

                                            The Covid19 shot does not do this, thus it has no chance to eliminate the Covid19 virus from the world like the smallpox vaccine did.
                                            Yep, they redefined vaccine. Why? It’s not really a vaccine.

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                                            • #23
                                              It is as if the viruses that cause smallpox and COVID-19 are entirely different. How long did it take for smallpox to be eradicated from humanity?

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                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                                                Yep, snake oil.
                                                If the flu vaccine “snake oil”, Tonyels?

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                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by Shellback88 View Post

                                                  Milder cases. How would you know?
                                                  The director of the CIA, my golfing buddy, told me.

                                                  Be careful, we know where your farm is and we are watching you.

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