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This week's events in Afghanistan.

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  • This week's events in Afghanistan.

    Well, someone has to be the first to post here.

    I won't get into blame - there is plenty of that to go around. But I don't remember the last time I felt as affected by a situation as I have been by this situation in Afghanistan. It just gets worse and worse. I can't imagine the family of those military personnel - the gamut of emotions they must be feeling. I can't imagine the poor people losing children, when all they wanted to do was get out and protect them. Humans can be really, really terrible.

  • #2
    It's frustrating on every angle. I can't talk about it too much with people cuz it gets the BP up.

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    • #3
      Oh my there is a WRP…. Oh Lordy!

      so brave Dom!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DomCasual View Post
        Well, someone has to be the first to post here.

        I won't get into blame - there is plenty of that to go around. But I don't remember the last time I felt as affected by a situation as I have been by this situation in Afghanistan. It just gets worse and worse. I can't imagine the family of those military personnel - the gamut of emotions they must be feeling. I can't imagine the poor people losing children, when all they wanted to do was get out and protect them. Humans can be really, really terrible.
        Terrible to watch. US citizens and allies trying to get out but stranded there. I heard first-hand from a guy I work with that had been stationed there talking about how one of the Afghans that had been one of their translators had been successfully extracted, but one of the others had to go into hiding because the Taliban was looking for him. They lost track of him... have not heard from him in days. They think he was captured and killed.

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        • #5
          Should have been out of there 10 years ago, but I guess too many people were making too much money...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paladin View Post
            Should have been out of there 10 years ago, but I guess too many people were making too much money...
            Completely agree; but that means we’d have taken the handcuffs off and rooted out those monsters in their hives instead of setting up outposts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DomCasual View Post
              Well, someone has to be the first to post here.

              I won't get into blame - there is plenty of that to go around. But I don't remember the last time I felt as affected by a situation as I have been by this situation in Afghanistan. It just gets worse and worse. I can't imagine the family of those military personnel - the gamut of emotions they must be feeling. I can't imagine the poor people losing children, when all they wanted to do was get out and protect them. Humans can be really, really terrible.
              Totally agree !

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Donkey View Post

                Completely agree; but that means we’d have taken the handcuffs off and rooted out those monsters in their hives instead of setting up outposts.
                We didn’t even have to do that. We could’ve won this war so much cheaper with almost no American loss of life. Just had to arm the Tajiks, give them air support, hand the country to them, done.

                But no, they were warlords and heroine growers/dealers. Even though they were pro-America and awesome. Then George Bush had a boner for ****ing democracy when the Taliban supporting Pashtuns had the democracy numbers. This war was lost in the beginning. It sucks, but the lesson learned is, don’t trust America. Taiwan will learn that lesson probably after the Winter Olympics.

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                • #9
                  Don’t even get me started on this administration…

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                  • #10
                    Pretty quiet in here haha. What a disaster Biden has been.

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                    • #11
                      Everyone seems -- reticent to start things here as yet. It'll pick up.

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                      • #12
                        Admit you voted for him or not but, elect a clown, expect a circus.
                        Last edited by 69bronco; 08-31-2021, 04:30 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Biden doing the best he can with a terrible situation passed on to him by Trump. Imagine if Trump was still in office. We would hear how the withdrawal would be the best the world has ever seen. The best the world will ever see forward and backward.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 76er View Post
                            Biden doing the best he can with a terrible situation passed on to him by Trump. Imagine if Trump was still in office. We would hear how the withdrawal would be the best the world has ever seen. The best the world will ever see forward and backward.
                            You're probably right about the hyperbole that would have come from Trump. But at the same time, I doubt the US under Trump would have just bailed and let the Taliban take over.

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                            • #15
                              Sorry, I was being facetious. Guess I should have finished that post with "/sarcasm"?

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                              • #16
                                I'll give a partial explanation you haven't heard anywhere else:

                                The humiliating spectacle of this withdrawal from Afghanistan is partly due to "testosterone overload." By that I mean - Biden has always been in favor of leaving Afghanistan. All through the Obama years he was the one voice arguing for withdrawal. Claims right from the start he was against any kind of permanent presence there. Sooooo.... when he finally was in position to make his policy a reality, he acted hastily, without sufficient planning or safeguards. For example, he didn't even telephone NATO countries with troops In Afghanistan to inform them ahead of time, and he allowed the military presence to draw down to zero before getting the civilians out. It's a "guy thing" I think, I've experienced similar kinds of 'rushed behaviors' when something finally becomes available that I'd wanted for a long time and/or I believed would only be available for a short time.

                                Similar thing happened with the Voting Rights Act of 1965. John Roberts spent lots of his pre-SCOTUS career advocating a "sunset" for the Act, wrote multiple articles advocating it. So, when the issue finally came before the Court in 2013, and he was in position to make his policy a reality, BOOM! A quick 3+ month SCOTUS turnaround, with the Court's opinion authored by none other than, John Roberts, CJ. There was an article at the time that criticized the decision, saying there should've been a gradual repeal instead of on sharp, deep cut, but either way: Roberts must be questioning what he's done, how it's turned out to be a colossal blunder. He probably blames Trump, and he might be on to something: The repeal was in 2013, but the wholesale, 25+ state re-writing of voting laws didn't kick into high gear until this past year.


                                Nobody seems to like these psychological analyses when I do them, so ... I'll give you a piece of worthwhile info: If you like Roe v. Wade, do with it what you can now ... I give it 7-10 months, tops.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by BroncoBuff View Post
                                  I'll give a partial explanation you haven't heard anywhere else:

                                  The humiliating spectacle of this withdrawal from Afghanistan is partly due to "testosterone overload." By that I mean - Biden has always been in favor of leaving Afghanistan. All through the Obama years he was the one voice arguing for withdrawal. Claims right from the start he was against any kind of permanent presence there. Sooooo.... when he finally was in position to make his policy a reality, he acted hastily, without sufficient planning or safeguards. For example, he didn't even telephone NATO countries with troops In Afghanistan to inform them ahead of time, and he allowed the military presence to draw down to zero before getting the civilians out. It's a "guy thing" I think, I've experienced similar kinds of 'rushed behaviors' when something finally becomes available that I'd wanted for a long time and/or I believed would only be available for a short time.

                                  Similar thing happened with the Voting Rights Act of 1965. John Roberts spent lots of his pre-SCOTUS career advocating a "sunset" for the Act, wrote multiple articles advocating it. So, when the issue finally came before the Court in 2013, and he was in position to make his policy a reality, BOOM! A quick 3+ month SCOTUS turnaround, with the Court's opinion authored by none other than, John Roberts, CJ. There was an article at the time that criticized the decision, saying there should've been a gradual repeal instead of on sharp, deep cut, but either way: Roberts must be questioning what he's done, how it's turned out to be a colossal blunder. He probably blames Trump, and he might be on to something: The repeal was in 2013, but the wholesale, 25+ state re-writing of voting laws didn't kick into high gear until this past year.


                                  Nobody seems to like these psychological analyses when I do them, so ... I'll give you a piece of worthwhile info: If you like Roe v. Wade, do with it what you can now ... I give it 7-10 months, tops.

                                  You're full of crap. There is no way he didn't coordinate with allies who had personnel in country. If that were actually the case there would be all kinds of foreign countries talking about how much of a Charlie Foxtrot Biden led in Afghanistan and all of the news stations would have no choice but to cover it. Be honest, you made that up because you don't like Biden or are embarrassed of him (not sure which).

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                                    Everyone seems -- reticent to start things here as yet. It'll pick up.
                                    Hopefully it won't and this place will just die out.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by BamaBronco16 View Post

                                      Hopefully it won't and this place will just die out.
                                      My hope is that everyone can either tolerate each other or ignore the ones they can't.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Blueflame View Post

                                        My hope is that everyone can either tolerate each other or ignore the ones they can't.
                                        How heavily are you guys planning to moderate this? I think people are kinda like, don’t know the guardrails, so not gonna go there.

                                        I’d love to see an emphasis placed on civility. Which, obviously makes your jobs a lot harder, because you’ll have to rule with an even hand or you’ll get accused of bias.

                                        WRP to me was just a mosh pit to get aggression out. Best insult wins the debate. And an attempt at civil discussion in gaff threads because he usually posted something interesting that hasn’t been talked about by the group.

                                        An attempt at heavily moderating in the name of civility might be near impossible though. Just because politics naturally brings people to an emotional state. And because people see people with different values than them as the enemy. So I don’t know.

                                        But **** BB.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by spdirty View Post

                                          How heavily are you guys planning to moderate this? I think people are kinda like, don’t know the guardrails, so not gonna go there.

                                          I’d love to see an emphasis placed on civility. Which, obviously makes your jobs a lot harder, because you’ll have to rule with an even hand or you’ll get accused of bias.

                                          WRP to me was just a mosh pit to get aggression out. Best insult wins the debate. And an attempt at civil discussion in gaff threads because he usually posted something interesting that hasn’t been talked about by the group.

                                          An attempt at heavily moderating in the name of civility might be near impossible though. Just because politics naturally brings people to an emotional state. And because people see people with different values than them as the enemy. So I don’t know.

                                          But **** BB.
                                          It will probably be pretty much what we're all used to -- a few slight differences here and there, but a quick read through the Terms of Service gives an idea. As always, the best recourse when there's unresolvable conflicts with another poster -- is ignore.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by 76er View Post
                                            You're full of crap. There is no way he didn't coordinate with allies who had personnel in country. If that were actually the case there would be all kinds of foreign countries talking about how much of a Charlie Foxtrot Biden led in Afghanistan and all of the news stations would have no choice but to cover it. Be honest, you made that up because you don't like Biden or are embarrassed of him (not sure which).
                                            No no, I'm a Democrat, and I like Joe just fine.

                                            Probably overstated saying "he didn't call them," but the gist of it appears to be fairly accurate:
                                            .

                                            Allies say the US communicated, but didn’t consult, on Afghanistan

                                            By Jen Kirby - [email protected] - Aug 31, 2021, 7:30am EDT

                                            The Trump administration signed a peace deal with the Taliban in February 2020. According to the terms of the deal, US-led NATO forces would depart Afghanistan by May 2021.

                                            As president, Biden recommitted to the US withdrawal, but in April he extended the deadline - first to September 11, and later inched it back to August 31. In April, Secretary of State Antony Blinken met in Brussels with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who said NATO would also begin its drawdown. Togetherness was simply the default. NATO governments didn’t have the capacity to stay in Afghanistan after the US left.

                                            Privately, diplomats grumbled that they weren’t consulted, or raised doubts about the US plans. But once the US made its decision, the decision was also made for approximately 7,000 non-American NATO forces on the ground.

                                            But the US and its allies did not fully anticipate (or chose to downplay) the Taliban’s accelerated push through Afghanistan and the collapse of Afghan defenses. That left NATO and European governments also rushing to get their personnel out.
                                            ......

                                            .

                                            LINK


                                            I'm about the last guy who should be giving advice right now, but if that statement about Biden set you off, you might consider re-calibrating your outrage thermostat. Around here anyway. It's not clear how this Politics-Religion Room will develop yet, but the message board we all just left - over there the War-Religion-Politics Room regularly devolved into a savage, primitive wasteland, searing insults flying in all directions, and a deeep, looong trench dug down the middle. The liberals were the smart ones of course, but the Trump-sters were crude-clever - they'd vulgar-violate every rule and get banned off the site - but then activate IP masking software and re-register the same day as a new user. So, might wanna save your highest outrage for one of those tricks.

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                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by 69bronco View Post
                                              Admit you voted for him or not but, elect a clown, expect a circus.
                                              Dude, the Big-Top left town eight months ago.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by spdirty View Post

                                                How heavily are you guys planning to moderate this? I think people are kinda like, don’t know the guardrails, so not gonna go there.

                                                I’d love to see an emphasis placed on civility. Which, obviously makes your jobs a lot harder, because you’ll have to rule with an even hand or you’ll get accused of bias.

                                                WRP to me was just a mosh pit to get aggression out. Best insult wins the debate. And an attempt at civil discussion in gaff threads because he usually posted something interesting that hasn’t been talked about by the group.

                                                An attempt at heavily moderating in the name of civility might be near impossible though. Just because politics naturally brings people to an emotional state. And because people see people with different values than them as the enemy. So I don’t know.

                                                But **** BB.
                                                We'll get a feel, as we go. We're not going to heavily moderate. Think of Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly but carry a big stick."

                                                Think about some of this. We've invited literally everyone to join us. Our terms of service is a little less than a third as long as was the Mane's. We've even lifted the asterisks that come with swearing (for now, the f-word, notwithstanding). The spirit of all of those kinds of changes does not scream "heavy moderation." There are two words everyone should pay attention to, in the terms of service. They are "civility" and "subjectivity."

                                                I'm hoping (and honestly, for the most part, expecting) that a quick PM saying, "knock it off" will be sufficient, in most cases, to calm things down - especially with the knowledge that we're serious.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by Chicago_Bronco View Post

                                                  You're probably right about the hyperbole that would have come from Trump. But at the same time, I doubt the US under Trump would have just bailed and let the Taliban take over.
                                                  🤣

                                                  The Kurds say "hi."

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